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Mar 8 07 2:48 AM
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Uncle Sam
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Born Again P-76 Pilot
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Mar 30 07 12:51 AM
Quote: The loss of 900 crew will be felt but I don't think by that much.
Mar 30 07 2:12 AM
Mar 30 07 4:46 AM
Quote:It's a first class disaster.
Mar 30 07 11:33 PM
Apr 1 07 4:01 AM
Apr 1 07 7:43 PM
Mar 23 09 7:31 PM
New and reserve German pilots aren't battle-proof as are the 600-1000 prisoners. About the help the RAF can bring for the Big Move, I was thinking of submarine detection. But Germans subs are really not a major problem in July-August 40. The French army is retreating in good order, see the OTL example of the western part of the Front. The retreat was (almost) perfect until the Dordogne. What was fatal to the French army (sorry, this is already known) are the fast motorized breakthroughs in the central part of the front (Loire and Saône) that won't occur in FFO. Comment fron Franck (he is offline this week) about the BoB : since this action is starting later, the German know they won't have much time before the bad weather arrives, so they will probably directly begin in phase 2. We're again far from the topic ...
Mar 30 09 5:59 AM
Russ we need to look into the change in perspective for the RAF here too. Off the top of my head, I'd suggest given the posture of the LW here, they'd be focused on harassment, causing the maximum mayhem for the minimum investment in assets. So Phase 1 looks like folling something close to the OTL path with a Battle for the Channel. UK coastal shipping is the easiest target they have that can be persued by a fighter based force, its one the British will try and defend and tends towards forcing the defender into things like standing patrols and the like. They won't have the Stuka's to comit (tied up with the Army), so the strikes are going to be a lot weaker in terms of tonnage sunk, but there'd be lots of pepper-potted coasters. The RAF is NOT going to send its light bomber formations to be butchered over France by daylight, well not more than a couple of times anyway. They need fighter support which simply is not possiable (lack of range), so that only leaves night operations. If there is going to be any support from the RAF it looks like Bomber Command is in the frame, instead of scattering bombs at random over Germany, they'll be dropping them on France instead - sorry guys. On the other hand it puts the skates under Whilwind and Beaufighter, and gives Mosquito another boost. Since there's no barge concentrations to worry about, the light bombers will be getting itno the night work too along side the heavies, but I'm not seeing them working together that often, different range bands with the need to spread as much trouble as far as possiable would imply using the lights to cover the areas they can, so alowing the heavies to concentrate on more distant targets. There's a political dimention here (RAF internal), as this would seem to give BC a good opertunity to sweep up ALL bombers into its warm embrace, but the counterpoise is simple inertia. BC would naturally like to convert any/all light bomber SQN's that came it way into 'proper' bombers, but there's not enough being produced to convert them. So the light bomber SQN's have to keep flying light bombers, and while they are, they don't fit into Bomber Command grand plans. Plus the imperitives of tactical air support are being driven home even harder in FFO by the enlogated BoF, with a return to the continet realistically on the cards in the not too distant future. I'd predict that if the light bomber force is sent against inland targets at night, their tactics could evolve in either of two ways. If they continue to try formation SQN strikes, they will run into Nav issues and either work something out or fail. The other side would be adopting BC's independant routing to a designated target, but that is pissing in the wind given their payload. They would be better off hunting targets of opertunity enroute to a default target. That is 'fly to XXX and bomb it - but if you can identidy anything better on the way kill it.' Dropping 4x 250lbers on a marshalling yard is comparable to doing over a truck column and in this instance messing up the trucks is a lot more useful. Meanwhile Fighter Command is babysitting rusty colliers rounding Dungness. - hmm bed time, I'll have to get back to this.
Posts: 809
May 6 09 3:59 AM
Umpire
As Shane stated, the RAF and BC and CC will have some serious changes thrusted at them. Churchill will give them no choice but to bomb rail yards and staging points in the north of France to slow down the German's moving to the south. The German's will have no choice but to deploy fighters in her rear to guard these points and clash with Bomber command. That means that though they maybe attributed to the BoF, more BC planes and CC planes will be lost. AT the start of the BoB historically in July they had 560 bombers in BC and 500 planes in CC. This will be a lot less when the BoB in FFO starts in late August. The Defiant and Battles maybe slaughtered during this period but over the channel or French coast. The may not even make it to late August when they are pulled from frontline service. This maybe where the RAF gets more pilots btw as there was a serious historical push to transfer the pilots over to Hurricanes. The German's meanwhile will have mostly fighters in the north and thus will have to devise tactics to do the enemy as much harm with no bombers. The best way is to close down the English channel and conduct fighter sweeps over it until Britain re-routes there ships. Each ship's mayday will force the RAF to respond and engage in a battle they are not equipped for. There fighters will take longer to get armour on them, not having the respite they had between the BoF and the BoB. Also as it is later, the German Me-109 will have drop tanks by the time bombers do show up in late August. So with the battle starting with the German fighters not tied to slower bombers they will meet the RAF fighters on and equal footing. This may quickly make the RAF have to chose what battles they can seriously fight. This maybe also a serious problem later when the German bombers show up as the German's will have air superiority over the channel and possibly parts of southern England. Not contested as much and the British radar operators needing those few weeks to identify the difference in the bombers to help vector the RAF fighters may mean more infastructure in southern england and the RAF's bases will be more damaged then historical.
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May 6 09 8:00 PM
May 6 09 11:49 PM
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