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Posts: 1496
Dec 14 14 12:40 PM
Just call me Author
Posts: 3716
Dec 14 14 2:31 PM
Born Again P-76 Pilot
Posts: 46
Dec 14 14 4:12 PM
Dec 14 14 8:03 PM
Question is, how soon post-war is Israel kicked out of the Commonwealth? The utter lack of oil from the Arab regions would demand something to be done.
Dec 14 14 10:07 PM
Dec 14 14 11:48 PM
Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Saudia Arabia will all have large numbers of Palestinian refugees, a million or more in 1950, as the stated aims of Ben Gurion, let alone the far more extremists was to remove the Arabs and to include Transjordan in Israel.
The 73 Oil Crisis was due to the US airlifting in tanks and other military supplies during the 73 war.
I'm baffled as to this "British Miracle".
Dec 15 14 10:36 AM
MarkLBailey wrote:Anyhoo, any thoughts on timelines etc for Fominion Status (or especially what sort of mess India has to go through) would be very greatly appreciated.Cheers: mark
Suggestion
Dec 15 14 12:39 PM
Posts: 777
Dec 15 14 3:20 PM
Tank Guru
Dec 16 14 10:53 AM
Dec 16 14 1:55 PM
Dec 17 14 10:38 AM
MarkLBailey wrote:Agree. So how abpout we put together a skeletal timeline?
Part 8 – Additional Responsibilities February 1943, Colombo<snip>Vice Admiral Fitzherbert coughed, and gave Somerville a glance. Somerville met his eye, then nodded almost imperceptibly. “Ahh yes … Steward, could refill our glasses then make sure we’re not disturbed please.” The three Flag Officers sat in silence as the steward made his rounds, waiting until he’d finished and closed the cabin door behind him. “Herbert, would you like to start us off?” “Thank you James. Sir Alexander the reason we’re here is security. All this business about Dominion status has caused a lot of politicking, Indian politicians sticking their nose into everything trying to make a name for themselves. As a result everything we do is being scrutinised, to see if some ambitious type can use it to further their agenda – and to try and find our secret agenda, because some of them are convinced we have one.” “As a result life in Headquarters is getting… interesting. The basic problem is that anything we say or do in front of an Indian might be leaked to a politico. Servants, office wallahs, servicemen – any of them might be a leak.” Normally that isn’t too much of a problem, we’ve nothing – well not much – that we have to hide. However I’ve learned something – and this doesn’t leave this cabin understand – that will put the cat among the pigeons and make the situation much more ticklish.” “India isn’t getting Dominion status this year. It’s not official yet, but frankly she just isn’t ready. Another year or two maybe, but not now.” “I see Sir … that won’t go down well.” “Quite. And the Indian’s won’t blame their own shortcomings, won’t blame anyone but us. They are going to be sensitive, and examining any changes on organisation we make looking for evidence of a dastardly plot on our part, hence the importance of a co-ordinated approach when it comes to changes.” Sir James chipped in. “That’s the reason we’re meeting here – no Indian servants on board, and my stewards are discrete naturally. We’ve something we wanted to discuss before the official announcement, and this seemed a good location.” “I see. <pause> I must say Sir that I find all this subterfuge a little disturbing … I mean if I can’t trust my own men …” “I know how you feel, but it’s not as bad as all that. The men are still loyal, and it’s not as though they’d leak to the Japs. In fact the Secret Service wallahs are looking into that aspect very carefully, and if they can find any evidence that an Indian Politico is leaking secrets, it’ll be an excellent stick to beat the others with – however to date there is no evidence of treason. All it means is you need to be a bit more politically aware, that’s all.” “Anyway we’ve something that’ll effect your organisation. While it isn’t touchy politically in itself, it does touch on something else that is, hence we thought we’d better have this chat, so you can avoid hitting any shoals politically.” “I see Sir … I’m all ears.” <snip>“Keep me informed too – it’s alright for you James, but I have to deal with the politicians on a daily basis. This has the potential to blow up, so I need to keep abreast of developments.” “Certainly Herbert. Now about the other matter …” “Yes. Now Sir Alexander having more Coastal Forces arrive has given us an opportunity. You’re aware of the push for Indianisation of the armed forces. It was going on before the war of course, and with the talk of Dominion status some elements of the political side have been pushing it harder. “ “Now word has come down from Delhi, once news of the delay in Dominionhood gets out things are going to get ugly politically, so they’re looking for some good news – something we can hold up to show that we’re not hell bent on suppressing India. Something concrete to show Indianisation of the service would be just the ticket.
Part 8 – Additional Responsibilities
February 1943, Colombo
Vice Admiral Fitzherbert coughed, and gave Somerville a glance. Somerville met his eye, then nodded almost imperceptibly.
“Ahh yes … Steward, could refill our glasses then make sure we’re not disturbed please.”
The three Flag Officers sat in silence as the steward made his rounds, waiting until he’d finished and closed the cabin door behind him.
“Herbert, would you like to start us off?”
“Thank you James. Sir Alexander the reason we’re here is security. All this business about Dominion status has caused a lot of politicking, Indian politicians sticking their nose into everything trying to make a name for themselves. As a result everything we do is being scrutinised, to see if some ambitious type can use it to further their agenda – and to try and find our secret agenda, because some of them are convinced we have one.”
“As a result life in Headquarters is getting… interesting. The basic problem is that anything we say or do in front of an Indian might be leaked to a politico. Servants, office wallahs, servicemen – any of them might be a leak.”
Normally that isn’t too much of a problem, we’ve nothing – well not much – that we have to hide. However I’ve learned something – and this doesn’t leave this cabin understand – that will put the cat among the pigeons and make the situation much more ticklish.”
“India isn’t getting Dominion status this year. It’s not official yet, but frankly she just isn’t ready. Another year or two maybe, but not now.”
“I see Sir … that won’t go down well.”
“Quite. And the Indian’s won’t blame their own shortcomings, won’t blame anyone but us. They are going to be sensitive, and examining any changes on organisation we make looking for evidence of a dastardly plot on our part, hence the importance of a co-ordinated approach when it comes to changes.”
Sir James chipped in.
“That’s the reason we’re meeting here – no Indian servants on board, and my stewards are discrete naturally. We’ve something we wanted to discuss before the official announcement, and this seemed a good location.”
“I see. <pause> I must say Sir that I find all this subterfuge a little disturbing … I mean if I can’t trust my own men …”
“I know how you feel, but it’s not as bad as all that. The men are still loyal, and it’s not as though they’d leak to the Japs. In fact the Secret Service wallahs are looking into that aspect very carefully, and if they can find any evidence that an Indian Politico is leaking secrets, it’ll be an excellent stick to beat the others with – however to date there is no evidence of treason. All it means is you need to be a bit more politically aware, that’s all.”
“Anyway we’ve something that’ll effect your organisation. While it isn’t touchy politically in itself, it does touch on something else that is, hence we thought we’d better have this chat, so you can avoid hitting any shoals politically.”
“I see Sir … I’m all ears.”
<snip>
“Certainly Herbert. Now about the other matter …”
“Yes. Now Sir Alexander having more Coastal Forces arrive has given us an opportunity. You’re aware of the push for Indianisation of the armed forces. It was going on before the war of course, and with the talk of Dominion status some elements of the political side have been pushing it harder. “
“Now word has come down from Delhi, once news of the delay in Dominionhood gets out things are going to get ugly politically, so they’re looking for some good news – something we can hold up to show that we’re not hell bent on suppressing India. Something concrete to show Indianisation of the service would be just the ticket.
Question - when will Ceylon result going to be announced - because thats the logical time for the India announcement, and then things are likely to get sticky!
Question - if India is going to get Dominion status in 44, when do we grant it? (personally I'd say announcement 6 months before formal change of status to allow preparations for the transition - with the added bonus that the announcement could help quell the growing unrest). I have another machieavellian story idea, so if possible I'd like the formal change no earlier than September 44,
Dec 17 14 3:12 PM
So what does that tell us?By February 1943 Dominion status is already having an effect on Indian politics, ambitous National politicos looking to make their name are already trying to jocky for position and make their name.In February 43 neither Ceylon or India had been granted Dominion status yet, but both are candidates (and well on the path towards it)In Feb 43 it looks like the result is known - Ceylon gets it, but India doesn't.This is known in London, and in the upper (and exclusively British elements of the Indian Government), but it is not widely known and everyone wants to keep it that way - they can see the potential train wreck and are looking at damage limitation.Question - when will Ceylon result going to be announced - because thats the logical time for the India announcement, and then things are likely to get sticky!Question - if India is going to get Dominion status in 44, when do we grant it? (personally I'd say announcement 6 months before formal change of status to allow preparations for the transition - with the added bonus that the announcement could help quell the growing unrest). I have another machieavellian story idea, so if possible I'd like the formal change no earlier than September 44
Question - if India is going to get Dominion status in 44, when do we grant it? (personally I'd say announcement 6 months before formal change of status to allow preparations for the transition - with the added bonus that the announcement could help quell the growing unrest). I have another machieavellian story idea, so if possible I'd like the formal change no earlier than September 44
Dec 18 14 1:41 AM
Dec 18 14 12:26 PM
borys68 wrote:If by the the Pushtun North you mean the North-West Territory, then it is a bunch of stone age savages with rifles. Politically they are nothing and the best course would be to dump them on Afganistan, where they belong. Or at least most of the NWP. Baluchistan is another poorly populated backwater - as 2/3rds of the Agency is a Princely State, spinning them off should be easy and painless. Neither is perceived as part of India proper, I believe, with the NWP speaking Persian and Bacluchistan speaking Baluchi, also an Iranian language. I do not know enough to pronounce on Punjub (although I believe it was dominated by the non-denominational Union Party) or Sindh. Would federalism by enough to appease Mussulman politicos? Borys
Dec 18 14 5:09 PM
Dec 18 14 5:23 PM
Dec 18 14 5:48 PM
Dec 18 14 6:16 PM
Dec 18 14 7:28 PM
MarkLBailey wrote: The date is a lot earlier than this, Mr T. This uprising starts the day the first land gets expropriated for a bomber base and is a response to the Anglo-French strategic move. At this stage it has absolutely nothing to do with the future of Israel etc, it's part of the general war, it actually kicks off in about March-April 1941 and links to the Iraqi revolt in APOD. And it has direct German assistance including German 'special forces' and german formations (probably paratroops) in platoon strength operating in Israel and Transjordan, Lebanon and Syria. By 1942 it's crushed flat and by the end of that year the paid relocations will be over. Allied troop numbers? maybe 150,000 involved in teh fighting overall, and they are all already in-theatre having crushed the Italians flat. the creation os the Dominion is a CONSEQUENCE of the nazi Ally's (Mufti of jerusalem Al Husayni) Second Arab Revolt, which occurs years beforehand.
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