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Posts: 88
Oct 28 12 2:23 PM
"We feel that this is no time for half measures and that every effort should be made to persuade Poland and Roumania to agree to the use of their territory by Russian forces. In our opinion it is only logical that the Russians should be given every facility for rendering assistance and putting their maximum weight into the scale on the side of the anti-aggression powers. We consider it so important to meet the Russians in this matter that, if necessary, the strongest pressure should be exerted on Poland and Roumania to persuade them to adopt a helpful attitude.
It is perfectly clear that without early and effective Russian assistance, the Poles cannot hope to stand up to a German attack for more than a limited time... The supply of arms and war material is not enough. If the Russians are to collaborate in resisting German aggression against Poland or Roumania they can only do so effectively on Polish or Roumanian soil; and...if permission for this were withheld till war breaks out, it would then be too late. The most the Allies could then hope for would be to avenge Poland and Roumania and perhaps restore their independence as a result of the defeat of Germany in a long war.
Without immediate and effective Russian assistance the longer that war would be, and the less chance there would be of either Poland or Roumania emerging at the end of it as independent states in anything like their present form.
We suggest that it is now necessary to present this unpalatable truth with absolute frankness to both the Poles and to the Roumanians. To the Poles especially it ought to be pointed out that they have obligations to us as well as we to them; and that it is unreasonable for them to expect us blindly to implement our guarantee to them if, at the same time, they will not co-operate in measures designed for a common purpose.
The conclusion of a treaty with Russia appears to us to be the best way of preventing a war. ... At the worst if the negotiations with Russia break down, a Russo-German rapproachment may take place of which the probable consequence will be that Russia and Germany decide to share the spoils and concert in a new partition of the Eastern European States."
Committee on Imperial Defense, Deputy Chiefs of Staff Subcommittee meeting of August 16, 1939. Quoted in Sidney Aster "1939 The Making of the Second World War" and Michael Carley "1939 - The Alliance that Never Was and the Coming of World War II"
Posts: 3716
Oct 29 12 2:35 AM
Born Again P-76 Pilot
Oct 29 12 2:38 AM
Part 4
22 January 1943 Washington
“Air Chief Marshall Sir Charles Portal is here, sir. He arrived five minutes early and his appointment is due now.”
Admiral Ernest King grimaced, then rigidly schooled himself. While he had liked keeping the ‘limeys’ waiting, that had been changed. As the senior British Attache Portal was now not a man to be kept waiting. “Send him in, goddam it.” The last was merely muttered.
He did not have to be personally happy about it, though. He just had to keep his feelings under control.
Sir Charles walked in, again not showing the slightest hint of the irritation he still felt about this man. They would never get on – but the atmosphere was different. He knew the delays previously had been deliberate, so the punctuality shown now also had to be deliberate. So the rules had changed – now to find out how much.
“Ah, Admiral King, how are you this fine day?”
King gave a faint smile. “Very well, Air Chief Marshall. We are of course as busy as you are but I am happy to carve out half an hour for you. How may I assist?”
Ah, what a change that represents. Polite professional courtesy. So we can despise each other yet still work together, I recognise an olive branch when it is... not so much offered as placed on the table between us.
Portal smiled slightly. “Thank you, Admiral, I will not waste your time I assure you, and I have very good news for you. I have come here to inform you that we have invaded Norway and successfully taken Narvik and Bodo airfield, although fighting at Bodo is heavy. Elements of four divisions ashore, some fighting in the north, we overwhelmed the German garrison and took Narvik intact. They have mostly surrendered there. Minor damage to the rail but nothing the railway brigade cannot deal with very quickly: within hours, I was told. We will not be releasing this information publicly for 24 hours, as we wish to coordinate responses with your military and that of France.” He paused. Yes, worth it.`
“If that is not enough time, I believe I can swing an extension with the Prime Minister. I have just enough political capital left to be able to call him directly. Once.”
King’s face was graven in stone. “I must congratulate you, although I will be asked as to why there was no... cooperative planning with the USN?”
Portal smiled politely. “To be frank, in view of the utter balls-up we made of it back in ’40, we have kept this information very close-hold. I have been told that the troops themselves did not know until after they were at sea. It worked, we caught the Huns completely by surprise and our casualties are minimal except at Bodo. The fighting there was heavy, and continues. Who thought that a Luftwaffe infantry division would fight so well? Apparently we have even lost Arras tanks there which I am told is frankly amazing. We have taken the airfield and are flying fighters in now from the carriers. It is obviously proper to inform you of this matter well in advance of public announcement. I have been told to stress to you that we kept this in-house solely for security reasons. We and the Norwegians knew, but not many of them and rather few of us. I did not know until six hours ago when the Mercury arrived from home with a courier and these files. Apparently the actual landing dates depended entirely on the weather, and a few enemy mine-lays would have ruined the plan.”
As he was saying this, he had placed three folders on the desk. King had sat quite still while this had happened, rigidly controlling an inner turmoil.
“Thank you, Air Chief Marshall. The obvious political questions which will be asked are, why Norway, and why not include us and other Allies in the planning?”
Well, that was very civil Portal thought.
“If I may answer in reverse order, Admiral. We kept it tight as it was operationally fragile. The Norwegians had to know, it’s their country and a lot of their resistance people have been used. The French had neither resources nor interests to be involved of course, and more widely it was just application of need to know. We very deliberately used only resources in the northern UK so the operation has no implications for any Allied operation in train or in planning. I might add that Bomber Command and Fighter Command were not told, for example.”
He leaned back a little, shaking his head. “Norway. I opposed this plan when it was raised in an earlier iteration and I am most surprised that it has occurred. According to the files, such doubters received a briefing from the Ministry of War Transport, Ministry of Munitions and the Trade Division of the Admiralty which proved beyond the slightest doubt that we had the shipping to support war production, feed the population, support the buildup of US forces in the UK, maintain the French in North Africa and conduct the tasks needed to fight the Japanese in Asia. Just not all five of those tasks at the one time. We can do three of those five, only. However, if we take northern Norway and head south to, say, Trondheim then we cut our shipping demands for iron ore and timber from across the pond by millions of tons. That and some other actions to which I am not privy give us a fighting chance of doing what needs to be done.”
King glanced at the red-taped folders. “What’s in these?”
“Full briefings. One’s on the reasoning behind the invasion. The second is on the invasion plans, what we are doing and why. The third deals with the implications, especially the tonnage implications. I have been told in no uncertain terms by Sir Arthur Salter that while you and Mr Douglas of the war shipping administration certainly understand the realities of the situation and assist the maintenance and buildup of Allied power to the limit of your capability, General Somervell persists in...’, he paused, ‘... quote a degree of fantastical thinking regarding shipping unquote.”
He glanced at his watch. “Admiral, I have used the interview time allotted. I do hope that there is sufficient time and information there for you to smoothly brief your own people. You will see that there are three copies of a short briefing paper at the front of each file, it contains a good summary of each file. Please contact my office in regards of any questions, I have called all my staff in to assist so they are all available if needed, as am I, of course.”
He stood, as did Admiral King. They shook hands.
“Thank you, Air Chief Marshall. My staff will be in touch.” He paused. “How badly does this hurt the Germans?”
Portal’s face wore a savage grin. “Badly. We just cut their supply of high grade ore in half and we have about 10,000 prisoners so far. Their navy is now locked into the Baltic and southern North Sea which helps protect your troops coming over. We are moving south as fast as we can, small parties mostly at this stage, Norwegians and Royal Marines. We’ve got every coastal submarine, destroyer and MTB we can get to sea attacking the Germans from Kristiansand to the Spanish border and we are mining the hell out of the Kattegat and the Sounds. Bomber Command is pounding their northern ports. Fighter Command is flying massive fighter sweeps into France. Home Fleet is off the Leads, but I don’t think they will sortie.”
King’s head nodded slowly.
“Thank you. Anything that hurts the Germans is good by my reckoning. I have to start making calls now.”
King sat down as Portal left and then until his staff reported that he was gone. Still tightly controlled, he called Knox.
“Heard Portal visited again.”
“Yes, Mr Secretary. He left me with three files, I am forwarding one of the copies of the file briefings he provided to you by courier, right now.” He took a deep breath. “They have invaded northern Norway, taken Narvik and Bodo, and are expanding south.”
“What!? Goddam limeys!”
King grinned.
Oct 29 12 3:40 AM
Posts: 8
Oct 29 12 4:39 AM
MarkLBailey wrote:However, if we take northern Norway and head south to, say, Tromso then we cut our shipping demands for iron ore and timber from across the pond by millions of tons.
Posts: 1496
Oct 29 12 4:43 AM
Just call me Author
MarkLBailey wrote:“What!? Goddam limeys!”
Oct 29 12 11:11 AM
Dendritic Detective
Oct 29 12 2:05 PM
Nov 4 12 3:33 AM
Part 5
23 January 1943
The War Cabinet Offices
Fraser looked around and ticked off the faces. Churchill, Attlee, Sir John Andersen, Eden, Herbert Morrison, Bevin and Lyttelton. Beaverbrook was not present.
It had been planned that way. He had helped arrange this and would talk to Winston afterwards, but that was it.
Churchill rumbled dyspeptically as the War Cabinet went through its agenda. Fraser did not mind, he was on the agenda in ‘general business’, and was entitled to sit with this Cabinet when in London. Any Dominion Prime Minister was. Besides, he thought to himself, I do enjoy the ebb and flow.
Finally Churchill turned to him.
“And finally, Prime Minister Fraser of New Zealand has some general business.”
“Thank you, Prime Minister. As you all will be aware, the Constitutional progress of the Empire was blocked during the 1921, 1923, 1926, 1930 and 1937 Imperial Conferences. You are all aware of just how hard the Prime Ministers of Australia and New Zealand fought for formal recognition of a structure of strategic alliance between the UK and the Dominions, in order to address this matter.”
There were gentle if puzzled nods around the table, this was old – ancient – news.
“The governments of Australia and New Zealand remained then and remain now determined to resolve this issue, as, in our view, failure to do so will lead to the inevitable disintegration of the Empire. On 1st November last, we therefore signed, in secret, the Wellington Alliance, binding our two nations. I am here for two purposes. The first is to extend an invitation to the Government of the United Kingdom to join this Alliance.”
He raised his hand to quiet the startled expostulations.
“I am also here to inform you that we have long been aware of the details of the mission on which you despatched Sir Stamford Cripps on 2nd March last. We have been discussing his mission in depth with interested parties. These are the Ceylonese independence group led by State Councillor and Minister for Lands Don Stephen Senanayakewe, and the Levantine group led by Mr Ben Gurion. I might point out that Mr Ben Gurion’s group has significant popular support in the USA, and that this support includes a large and increasing amount of capital inflow, by public subscription, but also politically and in the traditional sense of business investment specific to Samaria and Judaea. Our Governments and the interested groups are agreed after extensive evaluation that both polities are sufficiently mature to declare to Dominion Status on 1st January 1944 at the latest. Ceylon is indeed so advanced that she can ascend to Dominion status on 1 July this year. Both polity leaderships have fully accepted the proposals contained in the arrangements authorised by this Cabinet to Sir Stamford Cripps. We further note that both polities have played a role in, concur with, and signed pre-commitments to accede to the Wellington Alliance in all respects.”
He drew a deep breath. “In view of the roles played by and the points noted by the Governments of Canada and South Africa during the Imperial Conferences in regard of the constitutional structure of the Empire, it is not planned to formally offer either of those Dominions the opportunity to accede to the Wellington Alliance although naturally that is not ruled out. It is just noted that their previous positions would seem to indicate little enthusiasm for the concept, for reasons both Governments have expressed in depth previously. They will however be fully briefed as to the structure, nature and I stress responsibilities of the Alliance and will of course be welcomed should they wish to join under the extant conditions. No discussions regarding alterations to the responsibilities of the Alliance will be entered in to with respect to Ottawa and Pretoria. They can join on the same condition as everyone else, or not. That choice is theirs, alone. Discussions are currently underway with representatives from Malaya, Singapore, Fiji and Burma as to their possible ascension to Alliance in either Dominion or Crown Colony classifications. I might add that the Burmese groups have indicated that they wish to actually leave the Empire at the conclusion of the current war, but that will be no surprise in this forum. In view of Sir Stamford Cripp’s mission, we have chosen to send an Alliance official to brief him upon authorisation of this body. We have no wish for any inadvertencies to occur with his negotiations, quite the opposite in fact. To be quite blunt, the Governments of Australia and New Zealand find the lack of progress on the matter of formal recognition of a structure of strategic alliance between the UK and the Dominions to be unacceptable, which is why we present you this fait accompli. The fait accompli is regretted. It is solely intended to disable those arguments previously used by the Governments of Canada and South Africa to destroy the chance of any progress on Imperial Constitutional and strategic alliance arrangements. They may join or not, as they wish, but we will no longr accept the manner in which all progress was disabled by the arguments presented by those Governments as recently as 1937. Events since that time have shown how false, indeed dangerous, those arguments were. The security of Canada is guaranteed by geography and their southern neighbour, that of the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Malaya, Ceylon and the Levant, is most certainly not. We only have each other.”
“I wish to inform you that the Wellington Alliance is both a military and economic Alliance. It carries with it specific performance criteria which members must, I repeat must, meet. This is not optional. For example, Singapore and the Levant are designated as Imperial reserve points. Each member must contribute a specific military capability to this Imperial reserve at one or both of these points. Each member must have a specified minimum level of peacetime military expenditure, 2.4% of gross national product in the case of Australia, New Zealand and other wealthy countries or developed Dominions, 1.4% in the case of lesser developed Dominions such as Ceylon, 1.0% in the case of other entities such as Crown Colonies, focussed on local defence measures. Each Dominion will accept protective responsibilities for a part of the Empire itself incapable of self-protection outside basic local defence. For example New Zealand will assume such responsibilities for Tonga, Samoa, the Line and Cook Islands. This will include maintenance of an appropriate base for troops, warships and aircraft and their permanent presence there. That will of course require the concurrence of your Government should you choose, as we fondly hope you do, to join. Australia will be maintaining and developing the positions at Milne Bay and Tulagi at least for the nonce, to cover Papua New Guinea and the Solomons. In economic terms the Wellington Alliance generally accords with free trade and free movement of persons between signatories, although permanent migration and granting of citizenship remains a national issue as it relates to Dominion sovereignty. However, no citizen of any Alliance nation can be restricted in their movement for business or personal reasons, and no government may deny such a visit unless the person has criminal intent or background, and is staying for less than six months.”
His smile was wintry. “Believe me gentlemen, the discussions with Prime Minister Curtin’s government over that matter were... robust. Particularly as we are also about to open negotiations regarding the Alliance with Kenya, Uganda and Brazil, and extend to you the offer of opening negotiations, should you choose to join as we hope you do, and with others including Denmark, Sweden and Norway due to your very closely linked economies. They may or may not be attracted by the military side of the Alliance, however. The philosophy behind the Wellington Alliance is enlightened self-interest within an economic and military strategic structure to which all contribute, and supported by an economic arrangement to mutual benefit and which expands the economies of all members. It is an all-or-nothing deal, albeit one with three membership tiers. A colony like Fiji, for example, is small, limited in what it can trade, poor and not industrialised. They can be expected to contribute little but should not be excluded on that basis if they are willing to contribute what they can. The few things they can competitively export should not be penalised by tariff, and again the discussions with Canberra on that issue were, ah, robust. Should, oh, say… Denmark choose to join as a non-Imperial member, they would be expected to prefer Fijian sugar so long as it is commercially competitive. We do not much believe in subsidy – and again that was a robust discussion with Canberra. His Majesty will remain the official head of all Imperial states that so desire it, and the Royal Household will be gifted formal residences in each major capital, and a special private retreat in the Islands where there will be a base. Should Great Britain join, we will request that the Royal family or members of it spend considerable time residing elsewhere during each year.”
He sighed. “Finally gentlemen, a personal note. This is what we should have done after the last war, but we very foolishly squandered the chance. We tried to push it again until 1937 and Prime Minister Mackenzie King was able to quash all progress. We have paid a terrible price for those failures, we all know here that the Empire still totters on the brink of collapse. Prime Minister Curtin, Minister Senanayakewe, Mr Ben-Gurion and I are determined that the failure be rectified and that the Empire shall not collapse – that is the reason Ottawa will not be invited as we are inviting you, but may freely apply. Personally, I will not see the Empire disintegrate while I am Prime Minister of New Zealand or have breath in my body.”
He glanced around at the stunned expressions. “That concludes my agenda item unless there are comments. Members of my staff will be distributing copies of relevant documentation this evening. On a personal note, I believe this to be our very last chance. In our foolishness, our arrogance and our pride, and to our lasting disgrace, we threw the baby out with the bathwater after the last war. If we do not build a strategic alliance on which the Empire can stand foursquare now, then we never will, and the Empire has before it only a night without stars. We are building what we can, when we can. I pray, no I beg, that you will join us.”
J.R. Prior, Diary of a World in Flames: a Chronology of World War II, Imperial Government Printing Office, London, 2001.
At the time, late January 1943 was just another time of juggling disparate and desperate crises. The high drama of Prime Minister Frazer’s historic appeal to a surprised War Cabinet has to be placed within its operational context. Many things were happening all at once, and from these events the Third British Empire – our Federal Empire – eventually emerged to realise the dreams of those prescient men of the 1880s who saw an Imperial future in self-government, bonds of culture, mutually assured security and trade.
What helped realise this was that for the first time the Imperial forces were able to crush one of the serpent-heads of the National Socialist hydra with their heel. Norway: those were the days when much was germinated in and around Norway, to flower years later.
Chronology
24 Jan 43
Narvik – last elements of German garrison in the Narvik area surrenders. Royal Marines seize Harstad in a small but sharp action. Under a flag of truce, a demand is delivered to the garrison of Tromso to surrender. This is summarily rejected by 20th Army’s garrison commander.
26 Jan 43
Royal Marine brigade lands on the north coast of Tromso island at Hamna bay (the Norwegians having a clear picture of where the garrison is disposed) and quickly advances to overrun the airfield. The attached armour (four Arras breaching tanks and eight Churchills) are instrumental in this as they are able to obliterate the defensive positions with impunity. The only AT guns present at the airfield are elderly 37mm, which are completely ineffective against the six inch sloped frontal armour of these vehicles. There were Arras II* tanks in breaching configuration. They had a 17pdr in the turret and two six-pounder fitted side sponsons. Their supporting Churchills were a mix of conventional vehicles with six-pounder AT guns and Churchill Vortex. These were a ‘funny’ with two 20mm automatic and two .303 calibre machine guns in the turret and the original short 75mm in the hull –a specialist field fortification and anti-infantry tank. They simply sliced through the German field defences like a ripsaw.
27 Jan 43
The marines advanced around the south of the island. German resistance was heavy, but was rapidly cut to ribbons by their inability to stop the British armour. The two surviving 88mm in the sector engaged the British armour as they advanced in the brief period of light. While one conventional Churchill was knocked out but the frontal armour of the Arras tanks again demonstrated its invulnerability to the 88mm, and both 88s were quickly knocked out by return fire from their 17pdr and 6pdr guns. Late in the afternoon, the garrison commander surrendered his remaining forces as the Royal Marines broke clean through his final defensive positions and reached the southern side of the town. Once again, the breaching tanks had shown that their impact on enemy morale was as good a combat value as their actual military capabilities. In the end, British combat casualties were just over 100, many fewer than expected. German casualties were ten times this.
Posts: 357
Nov 10 12 3:55 PM
Now psoccer
Nov 11 12 1:05 AM
Nov 11 12 1:50 AM
MarkLBailey wrote:26 Jan 43 ... and Churchill Vortex. These were a ‘funny’ with two 20mm automatic and two .303 calibre machine guns in the turret and the original short 75mm in the hull –a specialist field fortification and anti-infantry tank. They simply sliced through the German field defences like a ripsaw.
... and Churchill Vortex. These were a ‘funny’ with two 20mm automatic and two .303 calibre machine guns in the turret and the original short 75mm in the hull –a specialist field fortification and anti-infantry tank. They simply sliced through the German field defences like a ripsaw.
Nov 11 12 2:46 AM
Nov 11 12 4:30 AM
Posts: 210
Nov 11 12 8:56 AM
So an applique armoured version of Valentine with the 2pdr replaced by a .50 cal water cooled Vickers MG with a 'troop' of 1 Sentinel and 2 'Valentine Echidna' as a dedicated Japanese field fortification busting team has resulted. Depot conversions of Canadian-built valentines to this configuration would be done at Chullora railway workshops in Sydney, and there might be what, 50-60 during the course of the whole war?
Nov 11 12 9:01 AM
Posts: 84
Nov 11 12 12:39 PM
Nov 11 12 2:18 PM
Posts: 400
Nov 12 12 11:06 AM
McKinstry, Leo (2010-10-14). Spitfire Hachette Littlehampton. Kindle Edition.
As Alex Henshaw put it, ‘Beaverbrook was an unpleasant bastard. But he was the right man in the right place at the right time.’ Within three days of taking up his post, he had apprised himself of the disastrous position at Castle Bromwich and was resolved to act. Miles Thomas happened to be in Nuffield’s office at Cowley in Oxfordon 17 May when a call came through from Beaverbrook at the Ministry:
They were both better in monologues than dialogues and from the Cowley end of the line it quickly became apparent that Lord Nuffield was vociferously defending his Castle Bromwich organization and making it abundantly clear that in his opinion the Minister of Aircraft Production could either have Spitfires or modifications but he could not have both. The moment of truth had arrived. Sarcastically, certain that he was putting the ace of trumps on the table, Nuffield shouted, ‘Maybe you would like me to give up control of the Spitfire factory.’ In a flash came the reply: ‘Nuffield, that’s very generous of you. I accept!’ There was a click in the earpiece – the line went dead. Inwardly I breathed a sigh of relief. Nuffield’s face was ashen. For a long time he did not say anything.
Nov 12 12 11:23 AM
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